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Life or Death: Should Californians Ban Capital Punishment?

Two state public safety committees will hold an informational hearing on Proposition 34 Tuesday, Sept. 27.

The California Senate Committee on Public Safety and the Assembly Committee of Public Safety will hold an informational hearing on Proposition 34 on Tuesday.

Prop. 34 is the November election ballot measure to abolish the death penalty in California. If passed, it would require replacing the ultimate court punishment with life imprisonment without the possibility of parole.

After long using the practice, California suspended its application of capital punishment in 1972. It was reinstated in 1977. Since then, 13 people have been executed by the state.

The passage of Prop. 34 would make it so all California inmates currently on death row would retroactively receive life without parole.

Tuesday’s hearing will include an overview and financial impact breakdown of the initiative by the Legislative Analyst’s Office. It will also involve two panel discussions.

The first panel will be made up of Prop. 34 supporters, which include former San Quentin Warden Jeanne Woodford and former Los Angeles County District Attorney Gil Garcetti. The second panel will be made up of the initiative’s opponents, including Sacramento County Sheriff Scott Jones and San Mateo County District Attorney Steve Wagstaffe.

The hearing with be held on Tuesday, Sept. 18 from 10 a.m. to 12 noon in 4203 of the State Capitol. It will open to the public for public comment at 11:30 a.m.

Should Californians ban the death penalty? Share your thoughts on the issue in comments.

Marshall Cochrane September 17, 2012 at 01:33 pm
It costs the state about $49,000 a year to house each prisoner, according to corrections department statistics. A state commission of experts last year estimated that the additional security and legal spending for capital inmates costs taxpayers $138,000 per death row prisoner each year. In California, more prisoners on death row died from other reasons than execution...You have a 7X higher probability of dying from natural causes during the 20 year wait to be executed...I support the death penalty. If the state is going to have a death penalty then it should be executed with velocity...something like:
1- Guilty Verdict, 2- 30 day appeal period, then 3- Death by hanging or electrocution. 4- Eliminate execution while "dreaming." The people that these monsters killed were not in a "dream state." 5- Reduce San Quentin backlog by having 2 executions per day until the backlog is cleared.
Ben September 17, 2012 at 02:38 pm
Just like schools, more prisoners mean more money for the warden to spend. What incentive does he have to reduce the prison population? And we spend far too much making these prisoners comfortable in a club med like prison. They get to watch they're favorite TV programs and are fed better than the children at public schools. They get to exersice and go outside to play play games all day. They have access to far too many amenities contributing to the fear of prison being greatly diminished. Crimials are like "Oh well, if I get caught I'll just get free room and board, like a little vacation".
David F September 18, 2012 at 12:32 pm
There is some very interesting info above. Simply put, the death penalty doe not deter when it is applied 20 years later. I think out system in California failed because we executed someone who didn't kill anyone. (Caryl Chessman) Then, it was somewhat unclear whether Aaron Mitchell was guilty. I think we should set a time limit by which the prisoner either gets executed or does not. If the system can't adequately prove its case in that time then it is life without parole. As it stands now, most of us would have to google to see who was last executed and when. I don't see that murders have gone down in Texas based on their system. David Carpenter turned 80 a few years ago. It is sad that someone who murdered so many just lives on and on.
Dudley Sharp September 18, 2012 at 05:48 pm
David F:
Deterrence is, primarily, a function of the execution, not how long it takes to execute, although studies indicate that more executions, sooner, will deter, even more. That makes sense, since the media broadcasts, widely, whenever there is an execution. If there were 300 executions this year, that would create the deterrent effect, whether those executed had been on death row for one year or twenty, prior to the time of their execution.
Dudley Sharp September 18, 2012 at 05:51 pm
David F:
Deterrence isn't measured by murder rates, but . . . 1. The United States has had double digit executions, annually, from 1984 - 2010. Murders are, now, at a 43 year low. Murder rates are, now, at a 48 year low. It's not surprising that death sentences are at a 35 year low. 2. Double digit annual executions stopped in the US in 1964 and resumed in 1984. During that period, murders increased by 100% murders in 1964 9,360, murders in 1984 18,670 3. There was a moratorium on all executions in the US from 1967 to 1977. During that period, there was a 56% increase in murders. murders is 1967 were 12,240, murders in 1977 were 19,120 From United States Crime Data, Dssaster Center, US Crime http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm
Dudley Sharp September 18, 2012 at 05:53 pm
Death Penalty Deterrence Clarified
Dudley Sharp There is much confusion about deterrence, some, understandable and, some, intentional. There are many examples of: 1) murder rates dropping in death penalty jurisdictions and 2) murder rates being lower in death penalty jurisdictions and many examples of 3) murder rates dropping in non death penalty jurisdictions and 4) murder rates being lower in non death penalty jurisdictions In different instances, murder/crime rates might suggest deterrence or non deterrence of sanctions. In other words, gross murder/crime rates are not an accurate method of showing or understanding deterrence. Some anti death penalty folks work hard to muddy the waters - as with this study, wherein some thought the criminologists had agreed that the death penalty deters none, a finding not confirmed within the study: "Deterrence & the Death Penalty: A Reply to Radelet and Lacock" http://homicidesurvivors.com/2009/07/02/deterrence-and-the-death-penalty-a-reply-to-radelet-and-lacock.aspx Confusion and understanding, respectively, are revealed by these two questions from a death penalty opponent. contd
Dudley Sharp September 18, 2012 at 05:56 pm
contd 1
Confusion: "If the deterrence contention holds true, why does the enthusiastic application of the death penalty not suppress the overall murder rate across all death penalty states?" Then, with understanding: "I understand your point that the death penalty has some deterrent effect. Perhaps the citizens of South Dakota are simply more homicidal than their northern neighbors, and without the death penalty keeping them in check, the murder rate would go through the roof." Yes, it has some deterrent effect, but it is clear he had not read the provided deterrence studies because they contradicted his comment about murder rates going through the roof. The deterrent effect has a very small impact on murder rates, but a substantial savings in innocent lives, as reviewed below. The death penalty, as all criminal sanctions, deters some, which will be reflected in net murder/crime rates, not gross ones, as explained: Whether murder/crime rates are high or low, whether they are rising, falling or staying, roughly, the same, all sanctions deter some. contd
Dudley Sharp September 18, 2012 at 05:57 pm
contd 2
A perfect example of this is: "Henderson, Nev., takes the No. 2 spot (America's Safest Cities) despite its location within the Metropolitan Statistical Area of Las Vegas-Paradise, which ranked ninth this year on Forbes’ list of America’s Most Dangerous Cities." (1) Does this mean no potential criminals are deterred in Las Vegas-Paradise and yet some are deterred in Henderson? Of course not. Some are deterred in both. It means that there are different factors in each jurisdiction which provide for different crime rates, as with all jurisdictions, inclusive of the deterrent effect of criminal sanctions, within both jurisdictions. This should come as no surprise. Death penalty opponent response: "However, the fact that murder rates are lower across the board in non death penalty (USA) states suggests that there is something else, some more effective deterrent which you would do well to investigate, if you weren't hidebound by your single minded advocacy of the death penalty." They are not lower across the board. Even if they were, it could not contradict the clear and accurate point. Furthermore, anti death penalty folks neglect the obvious reality that there are a very wide range of murder/crime rates between communities/cities/counties, within each individual state, be they death penalty or not, revealing the obvious error of the opponents intended point (2). contd
Dudley Sharp September 18, 2012 at 05:58 pm
contd 3
I think everyone knows that there are multiple deterrents to committing crime: Morality, change of social status if caught, the prospect of being caught and/or sanctioned, being some of the most obvious (2). Note that the 28 recent studies, finding for deterrence (3), find for deterrence of from 1-28 murders prevented per execution. Deterrence was also found to exist just by the presence of the death penalty statute. While this represents a substantial and very important savings of innocent lives, it has a very small impact on murder rates. The US has averaged around 33 executions per year since 1973, which equals a deterrent savings of innocents lives of from 33 to 924 per year. My guesstimate is that the US has averaged about 18,000 murders per years since 1973. The deterrent effect provides a near negligible impact on the murder rate (min 0.2% to max 5%), based upon those deterrence studies, but provides a huge savings in innocent lives. Even without those studies, most of us realize that all prospects of a negative outcome deter some. It is an unqualified truism, for which no exception exists. Some are so hidebound by their opposition to the death penalty that they must find that the death penalty, the most severe of criminal sanctions, is the ONLY criminal sanction that deters none - a truly absurd notion. contd
Dudley Sharp September 18, 2012 at 05:59 pm
contd 4
Some questions the accuracy of the studies. The nature of social science studies are that they are not an exact science, as reflected in the range of deterrence strength. Yet, no social scientist will say that the death penalty deters none. That is because all prospects of a negative outcome deter some. It is a truism. The question is not does the death penalty deter. It does. The question is "How much does it deter?" - a question that will never have a consensus answer. The anecdotal evidence is overwhelming that the death penalty is an enhanced deterrent over life without parole. Therefore, death penalty opponents must live with sacrificing more innocent lives, if they accomplish their goal - a sacrifice they have admitted they are more than willing to allow others to make, as detailed within: Innocents More At Risk Without Death Penalty http://prodpinnc.blogspot.com/2012/03/innocents-more-at-risk-without-death.html =================== 1) "America's Safest Cities", Lifestyle section, Forbes, 12/15/2011, http://www.forbes.com/sites/bethgreenfield/2011/12/15/americas-safest-cities/ 2) See Sections C and D within: The Death Penalty: Saving More Innocent Lives http://prodpinnc.blogspot.com/2012/03/death-penalty-saving-more-innocent.html 3) 28 recent studies finding for deterrence, Criminal Justice Legal Foundation http://www.cjlf.org/deathpenalty/dpdeterrencefull.htm
SalthePlumber September 18, 2012 at 08:54 pm
The Death Penalty is an outdated premise. It costs a fortune and it can be applied un evenly, when racial and financial factors are applied. got a lot of money? If so you probably wont see death row. Wrong skin color? Better watch out (see Texas and Illinois) for erroneous witness ID's. If you send someone to prison with a lifetime sentence, you should make a pill available for that inmate who wants to end it. i'm sure there are days when they want to go...
Sarah Creeley September 19, 2012 at 01:00 am
Hi Jason, people have been wrongfully convicted, and it is this that leads me to be against the death penalty. I think it's really sad that for many years our state has paid more for someone in prison than for someone in school. Prevention and rehabilitation are key. For those who have shown a blatant disregard for humanity life in prison is appropriate.
Rael Alt September 19, 2012 at 01:31 am
Wow just wow. Jim Kirkpatrick quotes the Columbia Law school as his source and Dudly Sharp quotes blogs and subjective personal web sites. Not to hard to decide which has the more credible sources.
Chris J Kapsalis September 19, 2012 at 10:53 am
Until it is fair for all classes and races and the justice system is perfect, never falsely convicting an innocent person, we must abolish the death penalty. If you have money you will get a better defense and will be less likely to be put to death for the same crime. Also some people are found innocent after being put to death. It does happen. It also cost more to put someone to death than house them for life. And no, prison should not be a pleasant experience. No TV. And work, to pay money to the families they destroyed or the cause. And finally it seems to me these horrible crimes have actually risen since the reinstatement of the death penalty. I do understand why some families would want them put to death. I probably would. I am trying to think of this reasonably and not from a natural reaction of vengeance. We have to wonder what is in the minds of these people who commit these crimes. Sometimes it is obvious. Other times it seems to be a deranged individual who has a serious mental disorder or even a brain tumor? Brain damage. Never let them out, they proved they are a danger to society. But put to death? Anyone could have a wire snap in their head, a brain injury, some other thing happen to them ;. he brain is a complex thing and lots can go wrong. I am not excusing it. Only that execution might not be the best solution as punishment.
Blake Mengotto September 19, 2012 at 01:56 pm
The law of the land is that murder is a crime. If murder is a crime for civilians, then why should the STATE have a lawful right to commit it? Hypocrite much? While I understand the emotional reaction by families and loved ones of victims, they have to realize at the same time that States should not be allowed to do something that they themselves outlaw. Having said that, our nation has to revisit what it considers to be a crime on all levels for it seems to me that our nation is in the business of incarcerating citizens, and business is good.
Dudley Sharp September 19, 2012 at 05:44 pm
Blake:
Do you equate the sanction of community service to slavery, or fines to robbery or incarceration to kidnapping? You do if you equate murder and execution. Crime and punishment are very different things, morally, just as there is a differnece between guilty murderer and their innocent victims. Most folks can tell the difference, easily.
Dudley Sharp September 19, 2012 at 05:58 pm
Chris:
This is not how deterrence is measured (FOOTNOTE), however . . . . 1. The United States has had double digit executions, annually, from 1984 - 2010. Murders are, now, at a 43 year low. Murder rates are, now, at a 48 year low. It's not surprising that death sentences are at a 35 year low. 2. Double digit annual executions stopped in the US in 1964 and resumed in 1984. During that period, murders increased by 100% murders in 1964 9, 360 murders in 1984 18, 670 3. There was a moratorium on all executions in the US from 1967 to 1977. During that period, there was a 56% increase in murders. murders is 1967 were 12, 240 murders in 1977 were 19, 120 United States Crime Data http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm FOOTNOTE 3) "Death Penalty, Deterrence & Murder Rates: Let's be clear" http://prodpinnc.blogspot.com/2009/03/death-penalty-deterrence-murder-rates.html
Chris J Kapsalis September 19, 2012 at 07:12 pm
I said horrible crimes, as in murders with special circumstances seem to be more today than before. Maybe I am wrong. Maybe it is the mass media that just makes it seem like there is more today than before.
Dudley Sharp September 19, 2012 at 08:56 pm
Chris:
I consider any murder a horrible crime. And you? It is hard to dind stats just on death penalty elgible murders. But, the most common death penalty elgible crimes are rape/murder and robbery/murder. As all three of those category of crimes - murder, rape and robbery, have all seen dramatic reductions, it is very likely that those two combinations may have dropped 60-70%. I have looked at the US and Texas. You can do Calif. Texas murders rapes robberies 1991 2652 9266 47900 2010 1249 7622 32843 1403 1644 15057 53% 18% 31% reduction US murders rapes robberies 1991 24,700 106,590 687, 730' 2010 14,748 84,767 367,832' 9952 21,823 319,898 41% 20% 47% reduction Source: Disaster Center http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/
Chris J Kapsalis September 19, 2012 at 10:53 pm
There are different degrees of murder. How I feel about it is irrelivant. The way the courts see it, certain murders warrant death and others do not. Yes of course any murder is a horrible crime. Give me a break. I am talking about crimes that fit the criteria for death. They seem to be on the rise. At least from what I see on the news. And as i said, I could be wrong, and it could be more awareness of it. However, I would bet you the last thing a serial killer, or rapist/murdrer worries abotu is getting the death pentalty if caught. Many kill themseleves as the law moves in anyway. Also are killed in prison by other inmates. Other inmates take it as a badge of honor to kill a molester or child killer etc. So that has always been the case. We will have to agree to disagfree, death pentalty is not a detourant in most cases I believe. Murder has dropped for other reasons I can point to. Many other reasons, not the reistatment of the death pentiely, what, in 1976?
Dudley Sharp September 20, 2012 at 01:25 am
Chis:
As I detailed, deterrence is, likely, not in effect in the majority of potential murders, but it is very important, nonthelkess in the lives that it does save, again, as I detailed, in my above posts. Again, as I already detailed, above, innocents are much more at risk without the death penalty. In the majority of cases what we are dealing with is evil.
Chris J Kapsalis September 20, 2012 at 05:03 am
I disagree. I dont think " I won't do this crime because if I am caught I'll be put to death" ever goes through he mind of a monster. They probably fear life in prison without the possiblity of parol much more. So I do not think it makes anyone safer having the death pentalty.
Dudley Sharp September 20, 2012 at 10:25 am
Chris:
You are not the first person to avoid discussing the facts and you won't be the last. To summarise my review. 1) The death penalty has enhanced due process over all other sanctions, inclusive of LWOP, therefore the death penalty is a better protector of innocents charged and tried, convicited and appealed, than does LWOP. There is no dispute, here. 2) Innocents are more at risk from living murderers than from dead ones. Again, an unqualified trusim which is, factually, uncontestible. 3) 99.7% of all murderers subject to the death penalty do everything they can to get a sentence less than death. That which we fear the most deters the most. Again, a trusim. Execution is feared more than life, life is much preferred over death. Unqualified trusims. Disagree all you wish, you cannot confound the facts which totally contradict your unsupportable opinion.
Dudley Sharp September 20, 2012 at 10:25 am
Chris:
You are not the first person to avoid discussing the facts and you won't be the last. To summarise my review. 1) The death penalty has enhanced due process over all other sanctions, inclusive of LWOP, therefore the death penalty is a better protector of innocents charged and tried, convicited and appealed, than does LWOP. There is no dispute, here. 2) Innocents are more at risk from living murderers than from dead ones. Again, an unqualified trusim which is, factually, uncontestible. 3) 99.7% of all murderers subject to the death penalty do everything they can to get a sentence less than death. That which we fear the most deters the most. Again, a trusim. Execution is feared more than life, life is much preferred over death. Unqualified trusims. Disagree all you wish, you cannot confound the facts which totally contradict your unsupportable opinion.
Chris J Kapsalis September 20, 2012 at 10:37 am
Let's see. Let's look at most countries without the death pentalty and look at their murder rates. Much lower than ours. Now look at the US that has the death pentalty and now look at our murder rate? Obviously it does not reduce murder rates.
Chris Bernstien September 20, 2012 at 03:42 pm
The 729 convicted murderers on death row were convicted of brutally killing at least 1,279 people. At least 230 of them were children. 75 more were young adults between the ages of 18-20. Another 82 victims were older than 65.
Of these victims, at least 211 of them were raped and 319 of them robbed. Sixty-six victims were killed in execution style, usually bound and shot in the back of the head. Forty-seven victims were tortured. Forty-three of these victims were law enforcement agents and another seven were security guards. Not included in these numbers are cases where the killer attempted to kill a police officer, but was unsuccessful, as in the case of Oswaldo Amezcua who shot three police officers. Eleven death sentences were handed down after an already-incarcerated inmate murdered another inmate.
Chris Bernstien September 20, 2012 at 03:42 pm
The arguments in support of Pro. 34, the ballot measure to abolish the death penalty, are exaggerated at best and, in most cases, misleading and false. Proposition 34 is being funded primarily by a wealthy company out of Chicago and the ACLU. It includes provisions that would make our prisons less safe for both other prisoners and prison officials. It significantly increases the costs to taxpayers due to life-time medical costs, the increased security required to coerce former death-row inmates to work, the money to pay those inmates to work, etc. The amount “saved” in order to help fund law enforcement is negligible and only for three years. (The money is taken from the general fund irregardless of whether Prop 34 actually saves any money.) Prop. 34 also takes away funds inmates could use to actually fight for their innocence, increasing the risk that innocent people will spend the rest of their lives in jail. The dollars Prop. 34 takes away ensure both that innocent people are not executed or spend the rest of their lives in jail. Get the facts and supporting evidence at cadeathpenalty.webs.com, waiting4justice.org, and youtube.com/watch?v=Vb7HMOfxxLE.
Courtney Minick September 25, 2012 at 01:35 pm
The costs of the death penalty are well established by reliable sources. Federal Judge (and former death penalty prosecutor) Arthur Alarcon authored a law review article, along with Loyola Law School Professor Paula Mitchell, that found that we have spent $4B on the death penalty since 1978, and are on track to spend $1B over the next 5 years.
The non-partisan Legislative Analyst’s Office did their own study, and found that replacing the death penalty with life in prison without the possibility of parole will save the state $130M per year. SAFE California has over 10,000 donors and supporters behind this effort, with donations from $5 to $5,000 and more. Supporters include clergy, law enforcement, labor leaders, elected officials, victim family members, conservatives and liberals. The SAFE California Fund will provide $100M over 3 years to help solve crime in our communities. The money will be directed to local law enforcement to bring down the shocking unsolved crime rates in this state. Right now, 46% of murders and 56% of reported rapes go unsolved every year. Voters would rather spend precious state resources on keeping our communities safe than on death row inmates who are already safely locked up behind bars forever. Life in prison without parole is a harsh punishment, and it will keep heinous killers behind bars until they die, with no hope of ever getting out.
Courtney Minick September 25, 2012 at 01:36 pm
Proposition 34 is justice that works – for everyone. You can find out more at www.yeson34.com.
Chris Bernstien October 3, 2012 at 02:33 pm
Your federal judge has been an anti-death penalty advocate for decades and his hardly reliable or unbiased. Both reports of the costs ignore the other side of the equation & the additional costs of Prop. 34: the increased costs for medical care, increased security for requiring inmates to work, taxpayers paying for their work, etc.) On balance, Prop. 34 will cost more.
Most of the $ for Prop. 34 comes from liberal Chicago trust funds and the ACLU. Look it up. The $ for law enforcement is less than 1.5% of the LA Sheriff's Dept. budget. Divide it among 58 counties and even more police departments, it is a pittance and will have no affect on crime. (And it's only for 3 years.) Brown just signed a bill to let 300+ LWOP inmates out on parole in as little as 15 years after conviction. Liberals would like to get rid of LWOP. So promises that men jurors found to dangerous to live in prison for life will stay in prison carries no weight.

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